Forum:Wiki overhaul!
RIGHT, so. This wiki is shit, let's make it better. NO STUPID COMMENTS, THANK YOU! 14:04, June 23, 2011 (UTC) What to do All of these options can and will change with more info being added until a consensus is reached. Option #1: Remodeling Examples: , , * Remove comments — you can have either an encyclopedia or a social site, they're mutually exclusive. * Remove achievements — if you need that many incentives to contribute, we don't need you. * Champion page overhaul: ** Remove "Strategy" sub-page altogether — information is entirely subjective; provide links to specialized sites on the main page. ** Put all Ability Details info on the main page; get rid of "Advanced Attributes". Example * Remove "synergies" section for items — again, subjective. Voting (Explain Reasoning) Support # Yes we need to remodel the wiki theme (as discussed) and I think the champion infoboxes can be remodeled. I highly disagree with removing the comments though (users can leave expressed opinions on them and provide info) so I oppose removing them. As for the badges, I oppose the removal (for reasons already discussed in another forum). 05:20, 6/26/2011 # I agree with most. However, my reasoning for removing comments is different: we need to have dedicated forums for comments/discussion/etc you can have community/social there that way we can have wiki looking cleaner while not alienating the community that was here just to read comments or share opinions. -- 13:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC) Neutral # Oppose # I do not support 4 of these components of a proposed remodel. The explanation for removing comments is a false dichotomy. The reason for removing achievements is a total straw man and also appears to be an attempt to chase away some of the most committed editors. Removing the strategy page and synergies section is attempt to get rid of tons of useful information only because consensus is difficult. Tehfake 01:58, July 18, 2011 (UTC) Option #2: Move out of Wikia Examples: Team Fortress Wiki, Wowpedia * What we gain: ** Non-fixed article space. ** No Terms of Use when it comes to customization. ** More control over the wiki and its functions. ** Ability to be endorsed/hosted by Riot. * What we lose: ** Personalized user pages. ** Achievements. ** Comments. Voting (Explain Reasoning) Support # I think we've better off wikia, we are currently in talks with Riot. if the project comes throught, even if people stay here; most of us, i think, would be moving to the "Official" one. Even with out achievements or rewrds. # Wikia is a pain, official endorsing by Riot would increase the amount of visitors by, at least, 4 times what we have now. 18:08, June 26, 2011 (UTC) # Conditionally vote for this only after we get a confirmed thumbs up from Riot. #Im in even if we have to transfer everything. --LoLisNumbaWan 03:40, July 3, 2011 (UTC) #I'll support under two conditions: 1. If Riot endorses the new wiki. 2. We get to keep our stuff that are in our profile pages. :D 03:53, July 3, 2011 (UTC) # My reasoning is, I really don't like wikia attitude, they often change things without notice and then you're stuck with the changes they decided that would be good. They simply don't care about the users of their product enough for me to develop a need for their features. Moreover, all of the features you mention we will lose, you can code them yourself on your own wiki, it's a tough job, but it can be done. I'm much more interested in having full control of the wiki features in our own hands rather than having to go to wikia support for anything significant (and often getting a NO from them too). -- 13:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC) # Support only if Riot will link to the moved wiki on their homepage. A summoner showcase or a red forum post is not enough endorsement to justify a move. Tehfake 02:04, July 18, 2011 (UTC) Neutral # Im going to hold off until i hear what riot is going to actually do for us. It's going to be a big job transferring all the articles over. In theory i will support the move when we hear back from them. 17:59, June 26, 2011 (UTC) # I'm choosing properly as soon as I can give answers. Else, I'd move to the RIOT one. D3Reap3R 14:48, June 27, 2011 (UTC) : I agree with Exiton. I want to hear what Riot says first. 18:30, 6/26/2011 Oppose # It would be a big change for multiple editors to move from one thing to another and there is simply no need for us to move in the first place. I want to hear what Riot has to offer first in order for me to change my mind. 05:20, 6/26/2011 # (this is a conditional vote, as I would be opposed to moving to Riot hosting since I wouldn't be able to access the wiki from work, which would diminish my activity on the wiki even more -- 13:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC)) # I have to stay with the wiki. Even if everyone moves, I have to try to keep up the wiki version. I only contribute on my school computers, so moving will make me unable to contribute to the new wiki. >_< Demise101 >_< 22:22, July 19, 2011 (UTC) Option #?: ??? ---- Discussion I personally like things the way that they are :3 15:48, June 23, 2011 (UTC) I opt for the Wiki Remodeling option, but w/o the achievements part, what can i tell you i like them, and maybe the comments, but lets see what the community has to say. On the other hand do not ever link this wiki to that $%/&)$%&"$ wiki again, I do not wanna see either hon or that mf'er wiki. I like the "Remove all comments" option. TehAnonymous 16:25, June 23, 2011 (UTC) Option 1: I like the look of the Fallout Wiki. It has a good background image that doesn't make it hard to read the content or distract you, it's a nice compliment. unlike the dragon age wiki with it's useless transparent content section and horrid colour schema. Beyond that I don't see much of a difference style wise. As for the specific points you bring up. * I like the comments. I agree with trying to remove subjective and opinionated content from the wiki pages. The comments section is a really good place for people to talk about how they play their champion, give advice about item selection ect. "you can have either an encyclopedia or a social site, they're mutually exclusive. " I completely disagree with this statement i think you can have both as long as you define where the boundaries. * I disagree with your attitude. I think we want every editor we can get with that caviot that they actually contribute. If we get an achievement farmer that adds significant content and makes the wiki a better place then I welcome him with open arms. Let him have all the badges he/she wants. You have to take the good with the bad. * The way strategies are done now is problematic. I think there is some strategy that is universal but there is a lot that is subjective and after patches becomes wrong. After a champion overhaul or when the metagame changes, strategies change and we are not keeping up. I should note that the wiki's you linked have strategies in them and i think it can be done but you need to be careful about it. I would say only but in the most basic and obvious stuff then link to web pages with more information. That's what new players need anyway. Some of the strategy link have information about how champion powers work with some items and that kind of info us useful to keep. For example, to say "Parrrley procs the slowing effect from Frozen mallet and can be used to prevent enemy escape" is not subjective in any way but "Stacking item X on champion Y is a good stating move" would be subjective and should be removed. How do we decide what to keep and throw, that's a far more difficult task. * remove synergies, yes i like this idea. They are annoying, subjective and rarely useful. Option 2: Here are my personal pros and cons *'Pros:' Being linked to Riot officially would be cool. A link on their website plus their help with art, info etc would really help but would they do it? You say non fixed article space, if you mean the wiki spans your entire screen like the Team Fortress wiki then i would absolutely love that. I hate the narrow articles we have to work with currently. *'Cons:' I like the comment section as i have already stated. I also like personal user pages, why would we loose this? We could still implement it manually. Create a page for ourselves and set up a custom signature to link to it. I use my page to store important links as i can't remember them and the search function on the wiki sucks. -- 18:24, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ::The comments were already removed even though none of us actually placed a vote anywhere. 18:25, 6/23/2011 *Suggestion 1 is just a reminder of this and suggestion 2 is pointless. I dont even know why I am voicing anything if things are going to be done to your preferences either way. 18:35, 6/23/2011 ** Really, beacuse i just made a comment and i can still read them. 18:40, June 23, 2011 (UTC) ***He re-enabled them after I said something about it xD 18:42, 6/23/2011 *I agree with Exiton about the comments. They provide a great place for viewers to talk about the champion/whatever, and it allows us to keep that bias off of the pages themselves. 20:19, June 23, 2011 (UTC) **No, please don't. This wiki has evolved a lot and by its own merits we can't just change the whole system because you don't like not being the king. I don't really care about achievements; but we can't eliminate comments, they are really useful for this wiki. They allow easy-to-use discussion that talk pages won't allow. I vote NO for moving out of wikia. Strategy pages are hard to maintain, so I wouldn't really oppose removing them but neither I will support it. The plan for the ability details section was that actually, to move them to the main page, but only after they are all finished and that won't happen anytime soon. 21:36, June 23, 2011 (UTC) *I don't really think it needs an 'overhaul' just some minor fixing and patching up. What do those game wiki's that you linked have in common with LoL? Simply that they are games. Do those games get changed and updated biweekly? No they do not so their data and information remain pretty static ALL THE TIME. League of Legends however is a living game, things get added, removed and changed all the time. It is because of this constant flux that I believe that A) comments should stay because they allow for the flow of information and ideas that this wikia can't really offer via their 'forums' and and B) Strategy pages SHOULD remain, but only offer basic general suggestions. We can offer links to guide sites like SoloMid and MOBAfire if readers want specific guides and builds. Thirdly, for C) I really don't get why a few of you are so hell bent on removing the achievements, its been brough up, voted on, and ultimately decided to to leave them. So my vote is no for any 'overhaul'. P.S. You talk about removing things that are subjective in a game that supports and promotes outside the box thinking while calling this wiki 'shit' and then say "NO STUPID COMMENTS" which is are VERY subjective opinions. I wanted to add my 2 cents, but this discussion section is very confusing... I think removing comments is fine, given that we provide something to replace them (as I suggested above, a dedicated forum space). I don't think encyclopedia and social have to be mutually exclusive (otherwise why the hell do we have facebook box on the front page?), but they ought to be separated. -- 13:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC) Official Wiki? Hey I'm playing TF2, since it is now free to play and found that the wiki that valve is hosting for the game. Lets see if we can do the same, lets contact Riot Games. :We should, but the way Nystus presents himself isn't so pleasant. Also I believe D3 is friends with some Riot staff on EU servers. 16:32, 6/24/2011 ::I was planning on going to PAX this year but i heard the tickets where sold out. Too bad because i could have talk to Riot about this. Face to face is always better than email if you really what to get things done. 17:32, June 24, 2011 (UTC) I talked to D3, to see if he can't help us. It would be cool if we could get official sponsorship or endorsment from Riot, but would that mean that they run it or that they just give this wiki a thumbs up and seal of approval? :That or they could pay us :P although it wouldn't make sense since they have all the same info we do. 02:09, 6/25/2011 :They can't host it as the domain is owned by wikia. They can't endorse it because it's a for-profit website. 02:38, June 25, 2011 (UTC) ::Then may be we'll move out if that's ok by the community. And no they wouldn't pay us, but they may be give some bonuses. :::I am sorry but I won't agree to move so we may get bonuses, I will need an insurance from Tryndamere himself. 18:35, June 25, 2011 (UTC) :::I dun like wikia at all, so I'd support the move. 19:06, June 25, 2011 (UTC) ::::If they'll host us, sounds like fun :-) ::::We would lose some nice community features, though, like comments. We could of course replace them with other stuff, but it wouldn't be exactly the same. Oh well, change in this case would be good, since the publicity we would get far outweighs the disadvantages of losing some of the community aspects. 19:11, June 25, 2011 (UTC) ::::I would definitely be down for moving if Riot hosts/supports but I agree with Sam, only if we get assurances beforehand. Would also have to work in a transition period so that those that are currently here are alerted of the change beforehand so we don't leave them high and dry. :::::I disagree with moving from wikia, however it we get something out of it, then I wouldn't mind. However I have tried to edit wikis that aren't in wikia, and it is a pain trying to figure out everything. If we aren't acknowledged somehow then I would oppose moving out of wikia. 21:18, 6/25/2011 ::::::What do you mean exactly by "get 'something' out of it"? :::::::Well what everyone is mentioning. If we don't get absolutely nothing out of it then I disagree with moving. 21:38, 6/25/2011 I just realized that these suggestions are being stretched...we can easily take a vote for removing comments just like we did for badges...obviously people want the badges, why bring them up (again). We dont have to move out of wikia for that stuff, we have wikia labs for a reason.. 05:26, 6/26/2011 ::Contacted some persons about possible relations in the first place. Held options open and adverted open ears and eyes for everything. I'll give informations if I have them. D3Reap3R 18:30, June 26, 2011 (UTC) :::I also contacted a few Riot employees and they said that my best bet would be to send a message to community@riotgames.com I will be talking with Riot again tomorrow. 07:18, 6/28/2011 ::::Great job on taking initiative, I just would like to say that coordinate with other people from the wiki who might be trying to contact riot (Kaz, D3D). Since you don't want to be burdening same people with having the same conversation with 5 different people, it will get confusing who says what and will only delay the process of getting a straight answer from Riot. -- 13:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC) I would like to say that moving out of wikia to independent hosting is an excellent idea. Now, in regard to Riot "sponsoring," I don't see any reason for "benefits" that we should be getting. After all, majority of the information that we got here is available on their own website, the only thing they look to gain from having a wiki is, as Nystus calls it subjective pages, like strategies, comments, detailed item pages, patch histories, etc. I think, our wiki is a lot (maybe 10x) better organized with the information presentation than Riot, but even then, nothing that we got here they couldn't have done themselves. The only exception to that being Sam's detailed abilities project where I've got to say, we've probably got the most information on each particular skill that the whole web and riot website combined (so Sam, once again, you are the man :) ). Plus, if Riot were to officially approve the wiki, then unfortunately, they would need to have control over it, which means, all of our 'crats will probably not have their position anymore. So, when you guys decide to take a vote on going to Riot space or not, I think, we should get the answer from Riot first, see what the details of our move to their domain would be, and then vote on who prefers the conditions and who doesn't. At the moment we are trying to decide do we want the new car or not, even though the car hasn't even been approved for production yet. (sorry if this analogy is confusing :S) -- 13:30, July 5, 2011 (UTC) I had planned on writing a blog article with a comprehensive list of things wrong with this wiki, to which this list barely scratches the surface, but for now either of these options marks a good start and I support either or both. --BBilge 23:34, July 13, 2011 (UTC)